Monday, 20 June 2011

LMHR: Love Slimelight Hate Racism





(click to view)
In a previous post, Slimelight Campaigns: Some Clarifications and Questions, I said that I thought LMHR's arguments in their petition about the Sol/6 Comm gig were mistaken, and seemed aimed at the wrong people.  I just received this, the leaflet they intend to use at the venue, and I think it's a vast improvement. They're asking people to join them on the evening to leaflet the event and talk to club-goers about why Slimelight needs to clean up its act. The text of the leaflet is as follows:
 "On Saturday 25th June, the Slimelight club in Islington will host a concert featuring bands with a history of fascist and racist links.


Love Music Hate Racism approached the Slimelight management, asking them to cancel the event because we believe racisma nd fascism have no place in our community. Hosting such events gives encouragement to racists and violent thugs everywhere.

Slimelight have refused to cancel.

Slimelight’s owner, May Uan Mak, insists the gig must go ahead, despite knowing the history and views of the bands, saying: “These bands do have clear fascist connections... It would be impossible for me to deny that” and “art can be fascist too. The fascist language can be just as powerful as any other language.”
 

Tony Wakeford, founder of the headlining group Sol Invictus, was an activist in the National Front. Since then, he has taken part in initiatives supporting the extreme right. He has often worked with known fascists, such as Michael Moynihan, who published a book which celebrates the random killing of Jews and mixed-race couples. One member of his band, Andrew King recently released a recording of a song with lyrics about “monkey men” and “only the smell of blood will smother the smell of subhuman dung”, and concludes: “you’ll never kill the Aryan soul... White man was born for battle”?
 

We believe that the majority attending the gig will not be racists or fascists, nor
be aware of the extrreme right wing links shared by Sol Invictus and their support acts.


This is certainly the case for most people who use and enjoy the venue on other nights.
 

We appeal to those fans to join Love Music Hate Racism, anti-racist groups, trade unionists, local activists and the diverse community in Islington in condemning this concert.
 

We believe that such associations are reason enough not to allow this concert to go ahead. We also believe that the vast majority of Slimelight fans reject the vile
beliefs of racists, and we call on them to join us in telling Slimelight to cancel the
concert."


SAY NO TO RASCISM AND FASCISM AT SLIMELIGHT!

Islington South Labour MP Emily Thornberry says: “It’s a shame and a disgrace that these peddlers of poison are playing in Islington. We have a proud history of tolerance in this borough”. 

Contact Love Music Hate Racism on 020 7801 2781 or email northlondon.lmhr@gmail.com to get involved, or just come to show your support and help keep our streets racist-free.

Slimelight (Electrowerkz)
7 Torrens Street, Islington
Saturday June 25th 7pm

The leaflet puts the argument really well by addressing itself directly to club-goers, calling on them to support the call for management to cancel the gig. This makes it absolutely clear that the campaign has nothing to do with the bullshit about 'censorship' or 'intimidation' that the groups supporters use as a smokescreen, and instead has everything to do with people - fans, club-goers, the local community - saying they simply don't want racist crap or the people who promote it given a platform in their clubs and venues.
 
All those concerned about the gig who can make it should support the LMHR campaign on the night - you can join them at the venue from 7pm onward if you want to join in with the leafleting, talk about what else can be done, or just take leaflets to distribute yourself.

103 comments:

  1. "Hosting such events gives encouragement to racists and violent thugs everywhere."

    As does providing the oxygen of publicity to such such events, which without this campaign they would never have heard about.

    ReplyDelete
  2. @ Anonymous

    Alternatively far-right bands will be made aware that in the future they will be opposed when they play concerts. And Slimelight will think twice before they book or allow promoters to book fascist bands at the venue. I'll be there on the night making peaceful protest for sure. Good work LMHR.

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  3. a) like any 'far right' bands woul give a fuck.

    b) Only they won't as I imagine this gig will attract the largest turn-out any of these events has ever seen and as the crowd will not be the expected hordes of seig heiling stormtroopers but a load of bewildered goths it will be a quite unparalelled case of 'egg on face' for the protestors. Still, a lot safer than having a go at the EDL rally next month :-)

    c) Since when has 'peaceful protest' ever stopped genuine nazis doing what they do?

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  4. I am concerned about the gig and I will attend but I won't be supporting LMHR. They, and you, can stick that bullshit right up your sanctimonious arseholes. Anyone have any issues with that I'll glady meet outside. If you have the guts to be there that includes you too Strelnikov.

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  5. @ anonymous

    a) Some of these bands are very worried about the protest over this gig, judging by the way Leagas has squealed about it. Even Wakeford has been forced to comment. They have had it easy for too long but not any more.

    b) Plenty of people have said on various threads on the web that they won't be turning up because they have reviewed their opinions of the groups playing. There will be lots of protesters at any EDL rally, as there should be. There haven't been ANY at this lots recent gigs, in this country anyway.

    c) Peaceful protest has changed plenty of minds over history.

    Cynicism never got anyone anywhere.

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  6. @ Anonymous

    "Anyone have any issues with that I'll glady meet outside. If you have the guts to be there that includes you too Strelnikov."

    Oh grow up!

    ReplyDelete
  7. For many years I tended to support the "oxygen of publicity" argument, but to tell the truth, I'm absolutely tired of what a bunch of right wing (possibly libertarian?) nitwits have done within what, was many many years ago, a fairly diverse "industrial" scene.

    I support the well-overdue critique that this blog has generated, and support Love Music Hate Racism in bringing these concerns to a wider public.

    Nigel Ayers / Nocturnal Emissions

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  8. For what it's worth, Mayuan Mak claims on Slimelight's 'None so deaf' facebook page that his quotes above taken from the Islington Gazette were invented by the reporter.

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  9. LHMR have the strongest case with the Sutcliffe Jugend and Peter Sotos concert at Slimelight on Oct 1. Sutcliffe Jugend take their name from Hitler Jugend (Hitler Youth) and Peter Sutcliffe (sexual serial killer), and Peter Sotos was convicted for child porn after he wrote a magazine which described concentration camps as "Triumphs of Nazism" (and it is Scotland Yard who initiated the original investigation into Peter Sotos).

    Peter Sotos and Sutcliffe Jugend musician Kevin Tomkins are on-off members of a group called Whitehouse, Whitehouse member Philip Best produced a compilation called White Power, and says he's not a Nazi but (just to show how much he respects victims of Nazism) Philip Best performed at an event called "Camp Concentration" in 2008. Unsurprisingly, Whitehouse also performed at Slimelight.

    New and detailed documentation has been posted on this Indymedia thread, and is updated periodically. LMHR, Anti-Fascist, Islington Council, Home Office and Islington Gazette should study and save all the scanned documentation posted on this Indymedia thread

    https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/06/480820.html?c=on

    ReplyDelete
  10. Incidentlly, does anyone remember the campaigns LMHR launched against Morrissey and Gilbert & George?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Tom, I anticipate your peaceful and grown up protest which will probably amount to fuck all. A bit of shouting on the day, some random violence is not unlikely before you twats go home and then nothing. The people you've attacked will still listen to the music you hate and your lot will still be a bunch of sancimonious cunts. Nothing changes.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Any suggestion people should concentrate on opposing the EDL instead is transparent right-wing trolling, as the anti-EDL protest and the Slimelight concerts are on different days (nice try idiots, but fuck off back to Stormfront)

    ReplyDelete
  13. Idiot argues that providing the oxygen of publicity encourages such events "which without this campaign they would never have heard about"

    Slimelight are perfectly good at promoting their own concerts so that last claim's bollocks anyway, I know from experience that telling (particularly younger) people about these bands politics + imagery drives potential fans away in droves, and if these campaigns didn't work then the Fash wouldn't be whining about them all the bloody time

    Even if the concerts aren't pulled this is an important opportunity to raise public awareness of these low-lifes

    ReplyDelete
  14. "Plenty of people have said on various threads on the web that they won't be turning up because they have reviewed their opinions of the groups playing."

    Oh, come one. As if! You're just being silly now. If folk are into these crappy neo-folk bands they're into the frisson of danger and shock their imagery is shrouded in, just like TG etc 30 or so years before. Doesn't mean they're by default nazi sympathisers. This absurd campaign only consolidates the atraction.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Just Another Comment20 Jun 2011 14:29:00

    Slimelight are perfectly good at promoting their own concerts so that last claim's bollocks anyway, I know from experience that telling (particularly younger) people about these bands politics + imagery drives potential fans away in droves, and if these campaigns didn't work then the Fash wouldn't be whining about them all the bloody time


    Speaking from an American perspective, I think this is very true for people over here. At least it is for younger people. Most 18-25 year olds, hell, any under 30's, have little patience for possible racism and cut it no real slack. They don't protest, but do tend to shun it. Maybe the whole 'they'll like it more because it is dangerous' thing applied to a majority of younger fans in the past, but nowadays I do not think this is the case.

    The most that these groups can expect from young hipsters and the like is for the kids to like them ironically for a few months, presenting the groups as a kind of intriguing joke to all of their friends. They would certainly be laughing AT these groups, rather than with them.

    Protests can have an impact in one sense. If a few very non-nazi goth kids walk past a bunch of people claiming this or that band is fascist, then it could jar them enough to look in to the issue more on their own.


    @Nigel.

    but to tell the truth, I'm absolutely tired of what a bunch of right wing (possibly libertarian?) nitwits have done within what, was many many years ago, a fairly diverse "industrial" scene.

    I concur, absolutely.


    To Anonymous, who wrote the following;

    a) like any 'far right' bands woul give a fuck.

    Well, they may not. But venues certainly would. If even putting on a 'dodgy' band can cause an uproar, then they would likely consider putting on a genuinely open far right band to be more trouble than is worth the cash they would make on the event.

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  16. "I'm absolutely tired of what a bunch of right wing (possibly libertarian?) nitwits have done within what, was many many years ago, a fairly diverse "industrial" scene."

    Would be interested to know when those halcyon days were. I may have been a bit too young for TG but from what I remember of 'industrial culture' from, say, 1982 on, it was a damn sight more 'dark' with SPK, PTV (in their 'skinhead' phase), Come Org, Broken Flag etc. Even Test Dept I recall being accused of being fascists when they first emerged. A scene, you yourself were not unfamiliar with.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Anonymous said...
    Any suggestion people should concentrate on opposing the EDL instead is transparent right-wing trolling, as the anti-EDL protest and the Slimelight concerts are on different days (nice try idiots, but fuck off back to Stormfront)

    original post: ""Still, a lot safer than having a go at the EDL rally next month
    :-)"" (note NEXT MONTH)

    For your information, prick, i've battled with real nazi cunts while I bet you've never done anything more than give it the big un from your keyboard. Why do you think London Antifa/former AFA want fuck all to do with your site or your shit-stirring campaign eh? Oh, suppose they're all fascist sympthisers as well now then?

    And cheers for giving neo-fascism the best publicity push it's had since Griffin made a cunt of himself on TV. How many local papers have featured this Slimelight gig now? Sure we'll be seeing a lot more dodgy fash bands in London now it's such an easy way to generate publicity either for record sales or the cause of the new right. Only who's gonna turn out to oppose THEM once they find out what a load of bollocks this whole campaign is?

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  18. "Whitehouse member Philip Best produced a compilation called White Power, and says he's not a Nazi but (just to show how much he respects victims of Nazism) Philip Best performed at an event called "Camp Concentration" in 2008."

    Some relevant quotes from Philip Best have been placed on that Indymedia thread. Whatever people may think of his 'art' or the daft things he did when he was at school the bloke seems pretty anti-fascist to me.

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  19. @Anon ANTIFA: sorry you feel like that, but the original comment is right - leafleting against racism at Slimelight is compatible with protesting against the EDL in Tower Hamlets.

    I don't understand your point about Griffin - do you mean that it was OK for the BBC to put him on TV, but wrong of anti-fascists to complain because it gave him publicity? Or that he shouldn't have been on TV to start with, and people were right to protest?

    I'm surprised that an Antifa supporter is opposed to handing out leaflets complaining about racism. I can see why you think there are bigger problems (because, of course, there are), but I don't see why being 'the cutting edge' of the struggle against fascism should imply not addressing problems such as promoting racism in 'popular' culture.

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  20. Sutcliffe Jugend take their name from Hitler Jugend (Hitler Youth) and Peter Sutcliffe (sexual serial killer)

    Since you're taking it so literally, isn't the "promotion" of sexual murder somewhat antithetical to the ideals of National Socialism?

    Would you also picket Joy Division, who named themselves "the prostitution wing of a Nazi concentration camp"?

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  21. Who Makes (up) the Nazis?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Jean-Louis Beaudry20 Jun 2011 16:06:00

    @ Anonymous

    "Sure we'll be seeing a lot more dodgy fash bands in London now it's such an easy way to generate publicity either for record sales or the cause of the new right."

    The bands playing at Slimelight on 25th June have been playing gigs for years in London, as have others in the fascist circle within neofolk and related genres. They have been NO protests at all against those events and they have been getting eager support from the likes of Slimelight, Ship of Fools, Hagshadow etc. I think those enablers/supporters will find it a lot harder to promote fascist bands in the future, in London at least. The same goes for labels like Tursa, Kaparte, Cold Spring and Tesco Germany, all of whom need to be exposed to a wider public as fascist enablers (at the very least). Fascism needs opposing wherever it arises.

    I take your point about giving the bands publicity. I think it is a fine line to walk and certainly Griffin should never have been given a platform on Question Time because everyone already knew who he is and what he represents. (This is not the case with the neofolk etc groups discussed on WMTN). But he did make an arsehole of himself and the BNP have been tearing themselves to pieces ever since. Idiots like Albin Julius and Lloyd James on this site, and Leagas in various other places have made complete fools of themselves in relation to this protest.

    I really hope that Antifa/AFA or any other anti-fascist organisations don't distance themselves from the campaign as they are vital in opposing fascism, and more effective at doing so than LMHR and UAF in my opinion.

    Don't take one comment made on this thread to heart, whoever made got it wrong, but that is just one person.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Calls to oppose the EDL instead of opposing the Slimelight are being posted on Indymedia by someone using the name Katrina Kessel, who also made all kinds of excuses for Whitehouse, before descending into openly homophobic abuse. On WMTN the person who's saying we should oppose the EDL instead of opposing the Slimelight claims to be from Antifa, but are they? IMHO this is a transparent stunt. Oppose both.

    Philip Best has also been trolling Indymedia as well as trolling here (see above). Refer to Indymedia for the appropriate response.

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  24. "Would you also picket Joy Division, who named themselves "the prostitution wing of a Nazi concentration camp"?"

    This 'Not for Profit' person who bangs on obsessively about Whitehouse stated on the indymedia thread that s/he would be in favour of state bans of the Sex Pistols as well as violence against them after their introduction of 'Belsen Was a Gas' in December 1977.http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/06/480820.html?c=on#c270166

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  25. I notice the author of this flyer chose to omit the dates of Wakeford's membership in the National Front (1985-1987?) and Michael Moynihan (1989-1990?), and the Second Amendment lyric about building a fortress from Hitler biographies. Nevermind Wakeford's clear and public denials of fascism and anti-semitism.

    Maybe because that would make it look a bit like revenge against somebody who used to be in the National Front instead of a campaign to stop a fascist activist?

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  26. which posts are Philip Best trolling?

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  27. "Nevermind Wakeford's clear and public denials of fascism and anti-semitism."

    I would be intrigued to see Wakeford make a public statement, not just distancing himself personally from racism and fascism in order have a quieter life ('denials'), but opposing it politically; supporting multiculturalism, calling on people to campaign against fascists and racists, and maybe even offering to play a fund-raising gig for a legit anti-fascist organisation.

    It's been said many times on this blog - people can and do break with fascism, but if they want to then be accepted in the wider anti-racist, anti-fascist culture and avoid public criticism they have to do more than just tear up their party cards - they have to take a public stand and put a lot of distance between themselves and their old comrades - something Wakeford has not done. He would certainly have to drop people from their bands who sing the kind of lyrics Andrew King favours. Incidentally, Andrew King was still working with Moynihan last year as far as I can see, so, even if Wakeford is not working with fascists right now, other members of his band are.

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  28. http://images.socialplan.com/3368f5d7dc144056_ad63fa07d130364a_p.jpg

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  29. There's a significant difference between not actively campaigning for multiculturalism and actively supporting the far-right.

    Incidentally, Andrew King was still working with Moynihan last year as far as I can see

    Fair point, that. Dates can work both ways. Perhaps it would be a good idea to include all of them so that people can make an informed decision.

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  30. darcy ...... i have supported LMHR since their beginnings in the 70's. I find their campaign against the Slimelight alarmist and manipulative. The slimelight is a goth and alternative venue that, over the years, has hosted or rented space to all types of events. In over 20 years i've never seen it associated with any kind of prejudice or discrimination; in fact just the opposite, its always been a home for the generally disenfranchised of all ages, sexes, races, colours and persuasions. I emailed LMHR and they ignored me. i tried to friend LMHR on facebook and they ignored me. It seems to me they have acted like a scaremongering tabloid. They have blankly refused to engage with any of the people who regularly attend the club. i am deeply disappointed by all their behaviour and would never consider trusting them ever again (as they feel its ok to demonise someone who may have made bad judgements 20 - 30 years ago i guess they will understand that)

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  31. The LMHR facebook page still call these bands Nazi bands - that would include their Jewish and lesbian members. Most Slimelighters have seen this. Many are informed about the bands. They don't buy into your nazi-jew-anarkistic-fascist crap. They will not be picking up LoveHatemongeringHateDiversity-leaflets. Hopefully they can't, because they will be holding their noses with one hand and give you the finger with the other, as they should.

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  32. @ Anonymous

    "Tom, I anticipate your peaceful and grown up protest which will probably amount to fuck all. A bit of shouting on the day, some random violence is not unlikely before you twats go home and then nothing. The people you've attacked will still listen to the music you hate and your lot will still be a bunch of sancimonious cunts. Nothing changes."

    I'm sure you are trying hard to make an interesting point here but I can't for the life of me work out what the fuck it is.

    But let's have a go shall we? "We" are sanctimonious cunts. You fancy a fight. You like music "we" object to because of its fascist overtones.

    Thanks for that. That's really cleared up some things for me. Boy, I'm going to sleep well tonight!

    ReplyDelete
  33. Incidentally, Andrew King was still working with Moynihan last year as far as I can see

    That'd be Michael Moynihan who, last year, performed a song adapted by Miguel Serrano from a poem by Herybert Menzel, one of the 88 poets who swore a vow of loyalty to Hitler in 1933.

    He could probably make a statement on that, anyway.

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  34. 'But let's have a go shall we? "We" are sanctimonious cunts'

    That's it Tom, you got that one right. Well done. Sleep tight, but before you do, remember to check under your bed for fascists. Them fascists be everywhere.

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  35. I notice that there was an interview with Andrew King, of Sol Invictus, in Volume #3 of Michael Moynihan's journal 'Try' (2007-2008) (a journal dedicated to radical traditionalist politics and culture, and keen on promoting the ideas of Alain de Benoist, of the French New Right) in which King fiercely attacks 'liberal elites', 'rights issues', multiculturalism, and even [CODE WORD ALERT]... 'rootless cosmopolitanism' (p.388-391). He calls for a revival of 'Volks-culture' (p.392), and concludes about how the 'blood-letting wars' of 1914-1945 were the result of 'liberalism' that saw the West lose it's place as the political, moral and culture leader of the world through fratricidal conflict (p. 405). The imagery in his music, he says, comes from the 'race memory of the west' (p. 404).

    Of course, Tony Wakeford would never employ anyone even REMOTELY racist or fascist in his group, so there must be some other explanation.

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  36. that should be 'Tyr', not 'Try', obviously....

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  37. @ Anonymous (again).

    (zzzzz)

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  38. Ah, that's good. You're back to exposing REAL neo-fascist cunts, sympathisers and apologists. Please keep it up and don't let personal vendettas get in the way again. All it does is erode the credibility of when you do unearth some indisputably damning evidence like King's odious remarks above.

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  39. So he has eccentric ideas. The guy is a ponce who spent too much time reading poetry. In other words, who cares? Does it REALLY matter? Well for you and a couple of others, whose cook status equals King and the rest, the answer is of course yes. For fucks sake, shitcan the hang up. Even for a tosspot like you there must be better things to do.

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  40. "Who makes the Nazis?"

    As of tonight I am publically declaring that I am a 'Nazi' in response to what I now see as no more than a hate site.

    C'mon and get me - I am mentally ill and an easy target. Enjoy yourselves, social workers!

    Nazi Simon

    http://ceramichobs.livejournal.com/

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  41. Hardly anyone knows about these bands in the first place, and you guys are spending this much time and energy on them? FFS go outside or something. Fascism is NOT a threat anymore. This site to be some sort of sick joke?

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  42. Handing out leaflets is one thing but any abuse or intimidation of gig goers will be counter productive, and will damage the cause of anti-fascism.

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  43. there was an interview with Andrew King, of Sol Invictus, in Volume #3 of Michael Moynihan's journal

    I'm reluctant to comment on the Tyr article without reading it, but a theme does begin to emerge.

    Of course, Tony Wakeford would never employ anyone even REMOTELY racist or fascist

    While King's actions are relevant to this discussion, I don't believe it's fair to use them to justify LMHR's characterisation of Wakeford as an ardent fascist when he was recording poetry by Zuzanna Ginczanka, a Soviet propagandist, around the same time King collaborated with Moynihan.

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  44. 23 said... "I'm reluctant to comment on the Tyr article without reading it, but a theme does begin to emerge."

    A belated, and not-at-all sarcastic 'thank you'. This 'theme' has been 'emerging' since the late 1960s, when Alain de Benoist launched his Nouvelle Ecole, and been augmented by various strands in post-war esoteric fascism ever since. The tactics of right-to-left convergence go back further, to Oswald Mosley's 'crossing of the floor', but yes – essentially, you're only thirty years behind the times in recognising these themes emerging in popular culture and music. Give yourself a pat on the back.

    Anonymous said... "Hardly anyone knows about these bands in the first place". So the international distribution capabilities of Tesco, Cold Spring and many, many other outfits are just a chimera? The international messages of support for an obscure and grotty North London club are all orchestrated, Mary Whitehouse-style, from an Islington bedsit?

    "Fascism is NOT a threat anymore."..... Are you some kind of a wanker, pal – or just deaf, dumb and blind to the realities of our age?

    If this site is indeed engaged in 'shit-stirring', as one defender of fascism's cultural wing so decorously put it – then there's no shortage of 'shit' to stir!

    Thanatosser

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  45. essentially, you're only thirty years behind the times in recognising these themes emerging in popular culture and music.

    I was referring to a theme in the work of Andrew King. I don't think anybody here has tried to imply that Nouvelle Droite ideas don't exist, only to ascertain whether certain individuals are sympathetic to them.

    Give yourself a pat on the back.

    And a gold star?

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  46. "he international messages of support for an obscure and grotty North London club are all orchestrated, Mary Whitehouse-style, from an Islington bedsit?"

    Well, the accusations against it blatantly were, so why not? :)

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  47. Love Internet Drama, Hate Racism

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  48. Q - Does anyone remember the campaigns LMHR launched against Morrissey and Gilbert & George?

    A - No, and in fact Morrissey donated £75,000 to LMHR

    Q - Isn't the "promotion" of sexual murder somewhat antithetical to the ideals of National Socialism?

    A - First in practice no it isn't. Second, even if it was, whether these twats might be ideologically inconsistent is irrelevant, many people are attracted to Nazism because they're mad, uniform fetishists or just into violence etc, ideological consistency rarely comes into it

    Q - Would you also picket Joy Division?

    A - Joy Divison's name was in poor taste, but Joy Divison never called the death camps (quote) "Triumphs of Nazism" or called on the State to "Legalise Child Abuse"

    Q - The LMHR facebook page still call these bands Nazi bands, that would include their Jewish and lesbian members?

    A - The guy who sold Nazi merch from the Blood & Honour shop in Carnaby St was Jewish, SA leader Ernst Rohm was gay

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  49. Wait,.. racism? I thought it was fascism we were against now? Sorry can someone fill me in? I totally forgot where we are now after several rounds of contradictory accusations and rebuttals...

    "How can I be a nazi when I'm black/gay?"
    "DUH, well obviously you can still be a FASCIST without being racist/homophobic!"
    then
    "Here's proof I'm anti-fascist!"
    "DUH, well obviously you can still be RACIST without being a nazi!"
    rinse + repeat

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  50. "Wait,.. racism? I thought it was fascism we were against now?"

    Both. Is that so hard to grasp?

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  51. Slimelight have published a statement by Tony Wakeford who claims that he and Sol Invictus are not fascist or racist, because there are Jewish and Gay members of the band, yet the NF leader Martin Webster was openly homosexual, and there were Jewish members of Mosley's British Fascist Blackshirts such as Albert Lynden (aka Lewinska), John Beckett (Editor of the BUF's Action newspaper), Bill Leaper (Editor of the Blackshirt paper), and Harold Soref (later Tory MP for Ormskirk).

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  52. Those behind this site have obviously seen the relevant Facebook pages, as you have quoted them in previous posts. Therefore why do you choose (conveniently) to ignore the unequivocal statements from members of Sol Invictus on there, who have shown themselves only too prepared to engage in the debate? Why disingenuously point to various unconnected Jews and gays as evidence that these people can be fascists, when the actual individuals concerned whom you imply are such are stating their absolute revulsion to fascism? You only discredit your position by glossing over the realities as they are in the present day - including the fact that Andrew King is no longer listed as a Sol Invictus member.

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  53. Wakeford admits that a major influence on his song writing is Italian far-right "Radical Traditionalist" fascist Julius Evola. Troy Southgate of the New Right and vocalist of the martial neofolk bands Seelenlicht and HERR, has also published Evola's works.

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  54. "Odious"? I thought Andrew King's interview in Tyr was excellent, although it will no doubt offend your "sensibilities" — you seem the typical leftists who love "humanity" (and other vacuous concepts) but despise flesh-and-blood individuals. Never mind. But King's a scholar and a genuinely talented artist — how many people in this scene can you say that about? As for the crap above about "reading poetry", trying to affect "working class" credibility by curling your lip at high culture is the mark of a moron.
    Wakeford doesn't read periodicals such as Tyr, (he's more a Cat's Protection League person) so it wouldn't have been an issue at all for him; In any case, it'd be a shame if Wakeford didn't work with King — you can see from various comments from Sol Invictus fans on the web that they think Sol is much improved with King's influence, and it would certainly sink slowly without his input. But no doubt Wakeford will do as he pleases, as, in the final analysis, Sol is his baby. But something tells me that he won't be free of internet smears and campaigns until Stewart Home is allowed to urinate on his fat, naked body as part of some dreary Dalston art performance.
    After all, that's what it's all about boys, even if you don't realise it.

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  55. >>yet the NF leader Martin Webster was openly homosexual<<

    No he wasn't. Quite the opposite. When the NF were at their height in late 1977 he described himself as a 'bachelor with an eye for the ladies' (1977 Sunday Telegraph colour supplement cover story on the NF)

    His homosexuality was what led to his expulsion from the NF.

    "Rumours of Webster's homosexuality led to him becoming vilified in far-right circles and he also fell foul of the Political Soldier wing of the NF. In 1983 they ensured that he lost his position as National Activities Organiser, then deprived him of his place on the National Directorate, before expelling him from the party altogether."

    Surely Wikipedia isn't too hard a reference source to check?

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  56. Fuck off Parrot-dick. While there IS a load of personal vendetta shit bandied about on this site, falsely accusing certain individuals of being nazi sympathisers, Andrew King clearly IS a nazi cunt and should be treated as such. His use of the term 'rootless cosmopolitanism' says it all really. Anyone who argues with that clearly doesn't know what they are defending.

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  57. Just Another Comment21 Jun 2011 14:19:00

    you seem the typical leftists who love "humanity" (and other vacuous concepts) but despise flesh-and-blood individuals.

    Perhaps this applies to some individuals here. But that is not the only position from which to oppose these strains of thought. The position I am coming from, for instance, is one of scientific skepticism and rationalism. What some might deride as 'scientism'. I personally find superstitious gibberish like what King was blabbering on about to be laughable nonsense, no better than someone who claims the CIA is transmitting messages in to their brain or those who believe wearing magnets on their bodies renders them immune to illness.

    The Jungian notion of 'archetypes' that this clique seems so fond of does have some limited uses when it comes to analyzing group dynamics, but it is only a tool. Moynihan and others seem to view it as part of some magical, mystical undercurrent. It is not. Archetypes do not exist independent of human minds and human abstraction.

    I think that a very important element of this whole controversy is being overlooked. Yes, many of the beliefs held by these characters are questionable, if not worse, from a moral/ethical standpoint, as well as a purely practical standpoint, but the foundations of the beliefs themselves are pure nonsense. Spiritualism, paganism, the mystical misreading of Jung, et. all are a foundation of sand. These people are in dire need of some genuine critical thinking skills as they relate to 'extraordinary' claims. I would recommend they read Michael Shermer's two excellent books, Why People Believe Weird Things, and How We Believe, both of which explore belief and how belief goes wrong. Reading The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan wouldn't hurt them either.

    Radical Traditionalists? Pft. You people are little better than a bunch of glorified Wiccans spouting conservative boilerplate with a lot of 'spooky' elements thrown in to the mix.


    But King's a scholar and a genuinely talented artist — how many people in this scene can you say that about?

    I don't know about this 'scene', but I can certainly name MANY more talented musicians from many genres than anyone associated with this particular clique. Stockhausen, Steve Reich, Kronos Quartet, Philip Glass, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Mos Def, KRS One, Funkadelic, Sun Ra, and John Zorn are just a few that spring to mind. Do I have to bring out Coltrane, Coleman, and Davis as well?

    Radical traditionalism? Screw that. Give me the modern world. Go live in a commune without running water if you want, but don't be surprised when the rest of us laugh at you.

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  58. @ Red Parrot

    Your unbecoming hagiography of King as some aristocratic man of letters overlooks his reprehensible political stance. King obviously revels in his projected self-image as some kind of "intellectual" hard man of the far-right (in his Second Amendment incarnation) and predictably you choose to ignore the subject.

    It's pointless coming on here and in effect saying "I like Sol Invictus/Andrew King." See if you can do a little better. Try and build a credible defense of these people. Plenty of people have stated exactly why they have a problem with them, but no one has managed to explain why they shouldn't object to the fascist ideas that run through the music or their promotion of other bands who are blatantly fascist (Rose Rovine E Amanti, Richard Moult, Gregorio Bardini).

    "After all, that's what it's all about boys, even if you don't realise it."

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  59. >>Q - Does anyone remember the campaigns LMHR launched against Morrissey and Gilbert & George?

    A - No, and in fact Morrissey donated £75,000 to LMHR<<

    Errr...Only after they issued a public statement accusing him of making racially inciteful comments, which they then withdrew after Morrissey, ahem, 'donated £75,000 to LMHR'

    (Googling Morrissey + racist + LMHR is always a good way to start...)

    http://drownedinsound.com/news/2649417-updated--morrissey-news-round-up

    And for the record, I think Morrissey is a stupid cunt and quite clearly from numerous other interviews over the years DOES harbour an odious streak of little Englander racism, but I think LMHR's volte face following his donation rather compromises their integrity over the issue.

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  60. Exclusive rehearsal footage of new LMHR-friendly Sol Invictus line-up:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY5p8WMPj48

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  61. Another inconsistency in Tony Wakeford's account of himself and his coterie:

    From Wakeford's statement (2007):

    "For the few who are interested in such things:

    

Many years ago I was a once a member of the National Front. It was probably the worse decision of my life and one I very much regret.
    However, I have no connection with, sympathy for, or interest in those ideas nor have I had for around 20 years."

    From Peter Webb's interview with Tony Wakeford (2007):

    Tony Wakeford: "There is always a cloud hanging over you especially if they have a good reason to be offended by my past. But with Richard he was just a painter from Wales, so he came up and we were working and I thought I'll make him a cup of tea and tell him. So I said `Richard I've got something to tell you' and he said `well I've got something to tell you too'. I said `do you know about my past' and he said `oh yes I know all about your past, don't worry about it'. He then said `do you know the group the Order of the Nine Angles' and I thought `oh my god, of course I know, David bloody Myatt!'. For me all of that is way beyond the pale, whatever he has been involved in whether it has been far right politics, magic or Islamic stuff the underlying core of it has been a virulent anti-Semitism. For me that is just too much and I would never have any sympathy with any of that shit, I never will have and Richard knows that. If I thought that Richard was still involved in any of that then it would be `goodbye'. But for me I had to tell people who I wanted to work with about my past, like Reeve, Caroline, Lesley and they have been very gracious and understanding, so what am I meant to do when someone comes to me and says something that is of a similar situation. I couldn't tell him to fuck off. I did think when he first said it that I might go for a piss and come back and find the cat with its throat cut splayed inside a pentagram, but he said to me that this was ten years ago and he totally rejects it now. So I thought okay, fair enough, if this is genuinely in the past then let's keep working but I know that this will cause a load of shit and people will use it to stir things up. He is however ultra sensitive about it and he does think that he was stupid, but we know that if this wasn't in the past then we couldn't work together anymore. For me all the David Copeland stuff and everything about them is beyond the pale. I have been through some really shameful, horrible things in my life so it would be the height of hypocrisy for me to not treat him with respect when he says he has turned his back on those ideas. But of course, if I was looking at it from the outside then I would think look at these connections, but I genuinely didn't know at the time and now we have resolved all of that. If I was part of some underground occult movement trying to pervert our pop kids then I think I would go about it in a slightly more undercover way."

    Richard Moult's review of David Myatt's autobiography Mygnath (2010)

    " A man so contradictory and perplexing and enraging to outsiders, whose life has been and is an opportunity to be revelled in and not to be wasted. This work presents aspects of that life (and there is much left unwritten) and is a reminder to all of us who can all too easily lose ourselves in the illusory mundane existence of this present age. Myatt is a traveller in all senses, exploring the uncharted worlds within, around and without us. Perhaps he will one day be understood as the human voyager he is: an example of one nexion of life seeking to understand itself within the infinite cold spaces of the cosmos."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Myatt

    Richard Moult is a collaborator with Tony Wakeford, as a musician, providing artwork for releases and as a contributor to "With Friends Like These" (2010) released on Wakeford's label Tursa in collaboration with Kaparte.

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  62. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  63. Those behind this site have obviously seen the relevant Facebook pages, as you have quoted them in previous posts. Therefore why do you choose (conveniently) to ignore the unequivocal statements from members of Sol Invictus on there, who have shown themselves only too prepared to engage in the debate? Why disingenuously point to various unconnected Jews and gays as evidence that these people can be fascists, when the actual individuals concerned whom you imply are such are stating their absolute revulsion to fascism? You only discredit your position by glossing over the realities as they are in the present day - including the fact that Andrew King is no longer listed as a Sol Invictus member.

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  64. @ Tom Skelton — I do not "like" Sol Invictus, and I have little or no time for the whole 'genre' they are a part of, but it's not "hagiography" to give King his due; I've recently been sent a copy of his new album, Deus Ignotus. It's truly a magisterial work by any standards, and his recently published (but incomplete) book of paintings is a testament to his talent. Credit where credit's due, surely? I see no evidence that King is setting himself up as any kind of intellectual "hard man" of the right — but he has integrity, I'll say that for him.

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  65. @ Red Parrot

    Once again you gloss over the question of King's politics. You may consider his work "magisterial" but that's hardly the point. By the way, you're not Andrew King are you?

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  66. ^ Hello Andrew. Fuck off Andrew.

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  67. No fellas — I'm not Andrew King. I edit the reviews section of a popular-ish music publication. But really, you moles ought to crawl out of your holes and face the fact that if someone says something not unequivocally poisonous regarding Andrew King, it may actually be because he produces good work. Yes, Deus Ignotus is "magisterial" — at least I thought so. But as for it "not being the point", I am no expert on his politics — all I know of him is he's rather cynical towards the European Union; So am I — I don't consider it a hanging offence. Sorry.

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  68. But, Parrot-dick, you previously said you thought the Andew King 'Tyr' interview, in which he very clearly outlined his politics, was 'excellent'. I would have thought any reviews editor worth his salt would familiarise himself with an artist before passing such superlaive judgement as you do on his "magisterial" new album. And by reading Tyr you evidently have done.

    Jesus,I hope your 'popular-ish' (among goths, black clad bedsit loners and 30 year old virgins) 'music publication' doesn't ever give you an LP by twinkle-eyed folk duo Prussian Blue LP to review.

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  69. "Anybody remember this picture ? It was taken on a NF march in Lewisham, South London on 13/8/1977.
    [from stormfront 03-03-2008 - by 'British Fascisti' and 'Purging the Droid']
    BF
    "The lady's name was Esther Sizer, she was 72 years old, she was Jewish and she had been a member of the NF for 5 years when this picture was taken.
    The march was attacked by 10,000+ negroes and communists.
    Those on here who spread their anti-Jewish poison would do well to remember people like her. All you do is insult her memory.
    Other notable Jews in the NF were Albert Elder and Gerry Viner.
    In the general election in 1979 Albert Elder stood as a parliamentary candidate for the National Front in the North West London constituency of Hendon South. He obtained nearly 300 votes.
    Gerry Viner lived in the East End of London and would often be seen down Brick Lane selling Nationalist newspapers.
    Esther Sizer, Albert Elder and Gerry Viner wern't the only Jews in the NF, there were others.
    This demonstrates the hypocrisy of NF members on here when they attack the BNP for allowing Jews to join. The NF is no more of a White Nationalist Party than what the BNP is."
    P.T.D.
    "Absolutely spot on BF. In 1977 JT was Chairman and Martin Webster was the National Activities Organiser. Either Gerry Viner or Albert Elder (can't recall which one) shared another interest with Martin Webster as well as being a member of the National Front.
    Elder ran a business on the South Coast called Antiquarian Books, which JT advertised through Spearhead magazine.
    Viner featured heavily in the no-holds-barred photo booklet "We Are NF!", published under Webster's guidance.
    From recollection:
    Carolyn Giles - Highly effective, popular (and attractive!) Worthing NF Organiser - had a Jewish grandparent.
    Martin Lyndon - Chairman/Organiser of Egham NF Group in the mid 1980s - was half-Jewish. Egham was a militant unit which spawned a number of hardline BNP and even C18 activists. Lyndon's loyalty and commitment was never questioned by any of them.
    Eve Marshall - Partner of NF intellectual and race-theorist Richard Lawson - openly described herself as half-Jewish.
    Gaynor Marshall - Daughter of Eve, a keen NF activist and very blonde, was therefore one-quarter Jewish.
    The White Noise movement in the 80s also had three members to my certain knowledge who were known to be Jewish or part Jewish.
    Only recently has this purity fetish been taken to the ridiculous extremes of the present, with so-called hardliners trying to out-macho each other with their expressed intolerance and hatred of all things remotely Jewish.
    Your picture reveals them to be frauds of the very worst order. It's time they changed their bedsheets and grew up."

    And anyone want to go and find "Loose Cannon" and Martin Websters OWN account therein of his homosexual dealings with certain people in the 70s? - I suggest anyone who wants to see the history [and truth about] british fascism go and read Nigel Copseys very in-depth tome - and the subject of Websters homosexuality is dealt with in there as well. Its from 2004 - but this is pertinent too -
    The Independent, 27/11/2010, p.20; BBC Radio 4, 12/12/2010
    Professor Nigel Copsey,a specialist in in right-wing extremism, fascism and anti-fascism, says the English Defence League is attempting to forge links with fringe elements associated with Jewish, Sikh and gay communities to spread Islamophobia.

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  70. The obvious problem here is it's only your personal subjective opinion that a person with dumb reprehensible political ideas and a bad taste in music and aesthetics is not allowed to perform in a certain place or that anyone in particular is obliged to defend such a person.

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  71. actually, i'd have thought what the EDL is trying to do is forge another (New) 'British Movement'. If you recall the late 70s/early-mid 80s version had a number of West Indian members as they recognised the demographic they were trying to attract (working class inner city youth) probably had a few black mates. This , bizarrely, anti-black racism was conspicuously absent in much of their material, where as the anti semitism was quite unprecedentedly virulent.

    You're always going to get 'Stockholm syndrome' cranks within any extremist groups. EDL obviously have their Sikh frontman and a couple of zionist loons have been seen waving flags on their demos but, along with their 'gay section' it is all transparently tokenist.

    Really hope this site isn't going to start banging on about 'Islamophobia'. Islam is a religion, not a race and shouldn't be confused as such.

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  72. "Parrot Dick". You're funny. No really, have you ever thought of writing as a career?

    Not that it matters, but I've not read Tyr — the King interview was posted separately in PDF form on the web by one of the people who think Andrew King's contribution to Sol Invictus was a positive thing. I'm inclined to agree; I find the 'neo-folk' genre lacking in inspiration.

    Couple of opinions from others on the web:

    "I find him to be one of the few people doing something interesting in a genre that long ago ran out of steam (his contributions to Sol Invictus are the only things of note produced by the band in many years, for example)..."

    "Andreas Ritter's heart attack/stroke was the final nail in the coffin of neofolk. Andrew King and B'eirth are both doing good things (though unconfined by genre), but the remaining neofolk acts are simply searching through the pockets of a corpse for spare coins...."

    I'm not sure what your pal Billy Bragg's opinion on all this is, but he's hiding-out in his country home in Dorset and is unavailable for comment.

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  73. A fairly divers scene for industrial music? I was think it would be around about the mid-80s, when Test Department were playing tours of mining communities with a miners’ choir and big GLC - sponsored events like Cannon Street station. Around this time Tony Thorpe would be assembling dance compilations like Funky Alternatives, which used techno from Afro-Caribbean as well as European heritages. And Adrian Sherwood would be dubbing up post-punk and reggae . And SPK would be on the Tube with Sinan (who is of Chinese/Australian background) in the lead and they’d be playing tracks like “Junk Funk”. In the USA you’d have acts like the Beatnigs starting up about this time. Back then, on the whole, you wouldn’t get those small audiences of pale people dressed in black.

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  74. Satan's cock-ring23 Jun 2011 17:11:00

    Kinda strange that noone appears to have noticed that whilst there's been this campaign launched against the Slimelight gig that the tickets have now SOLD out for the Death Metal festival at Camden Underworld on the very same night. Have fun googling the names of the bands playing plus the words 'nazi', 'fascist', 'hitler', 'holocaust', 'jews' etc.
    http://www.theunderworldcamden.co.uk/gigs/gigdetails/25-jun-11-london-deathfest-xii-feat-deicide-underworld/London/

    perhaps you LMHR still have time to change the location of their picket?

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  75. An excellent comment from --((()))---, who could also have cited the Anglo-Asian 23 Skidoo, Hula or outfits like Der Plan and Strafe Fur Rebellion – not to mention Cabaret Voltaire.

    Perhaps the rot set in with the jockeying for position as the hardest/least compromising and least open-minded act in the field? GPO declared the Human League to be representing "the shit of the world", and, in his turn, was castigated by William Bennett for having 'gone soft' with 20 jazz Funk Greats. Nothing thrives in an artistic vacuum, and Industrial forced itself into ever narrower confines until it was capable of expressing only negativity. It's no surprise that it all turned to fascist shit.....

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  76. "Back then, on the whole, you wouldn’t get those small audiences of pale people dressed in black."

    Actually, if you cast your mind back Nigel, I rather think you would.

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  77. Just Another Comment24 Jun 2011 00:49:00

    Beatnigs were awesome. Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy were good too.

    As for Sinan, I think she's married to Graeme Revell now, isn't she?

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  78. Anonymous said...

    "Actually, if you cast your mind back Nigel, I rather think you would."

    Test Department at Bishopsbridge Works, the Psychic Rally In Heaven, The Final Academy at the ICA, vaious On-U nights at the Astoria and even Whitehouse at The Venue in Lewisham... just five events from the 80s which drew capacity audiences.

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  79. 1. Whitehouse and Sutcliffe Jugend quotes in Flowmotion Magazine No 6 -

    "We are concerned with the struggle against unhealthy negroid influence in all popular music today" - William Bennett (Whitehouse)

    "Kill women? It's the only way to treat them" - Kevin Tomkins (Sutcliffe Jugend)

    2. Kevin Tomkins on Heinrich Himmler etc, Unsound Magazine Vol 1 No 3 -

    Q: What are your influences?
    A: Peter Sutcliffe, The Marquis de Sade, Himmler and Ian Brady

    Q: Why do you think Peter Sutcliffe is so important?
    A: He helped keep prostitutes off the streets and he's a great inspiration to everybody

    Q: Do you think there is a limit to violence in music?
    A: No, but there are many courses of action beyond music. In crime for instance

    3. William Bennett's racism, EST Magazine No 1 -

    "Whitehouse and their label Come Org have used sufficiently extreme rhetoric not only in public but also in private for even the most forgiving liberal conscience to shy away from giving them the benefit of the doubt. The blatant racism of Whitehouse's William Bennett appears to have few pretensions to being a sophisticated cultural critique, despite many fans' illusions. Whitehouse's live events frequently involve lavish helpings of racial abuse, alienating many who were sufficiently liberal to give them a chance in the first place"

    4. William Bennett's violence, Modern Tower web-page -

    "Whitehouse performed here in 1983, supported by Ramleh and The New Blockaders. Whitehouse's set has become notorious for an incident in which the entire audience walked out, after William Bennett slapped a female audience member in the face"

    SCANS POSTED HERE -
    http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/06/480820.html?c=on

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  80. "A fairly divers scene for industrial music? I was think it would be around about the mid-80s, when Test Department were playing tours of mining communities with a miners’ choir and big GLC - sponsored events like Cannon Street station. Around this time Tony Thorpe would be assembling dance compilations like Funky Alternatives, which used techno from Afro-Caribbean as well as European heritages. And Adrian Sherwood would be dubbing up post-punk and reggae . And SPK would be on the Tube with Sinan (who is of Chinese/Australian background) in the lead and they’d be playing tracks like “Junk Funk”. In the USA you’d have acts like the Beatnigs starting up about this time. Back then, on the whole, you wouldn’t get those small audiences of pale people dressed in black"

    That could have something to do with the fact that all the above, bar Test Dept (and Thorpe when he worked with KLF later) sucked to high heaven. Meanwhile, Genocide Organ keep doing sell out gigs year after year. They've kept their fans by not trying to go pop but also by not sucking shit.

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  81. "Test Department at Bishopsbridge Works, the Psychic Rally In Heaven, The Final Academy at the ICA, vaious On-U nights at the Astoria and even Whitehouse at The Venue in Lewisham... just five events from the 80s which drew capacity audiences."

    Aaah, sorry, forgot about those shows. Yup, they were all full of big hulking guys who looked like WWF wrestlers and Slovakian supermodels in Christian Louboutin shoes sipping Cristal at the bar.

    Where can I buy a pair of your rose-tinted glasses?

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  82. "Meanwhile, Genocide Organ keep doing sell out gigs year after year. They've kept their fans by not trying to go pop but also by not sucking shit."

    Also because telephone boxes aren't that hard to sell out and their 'fans' are likely to stay when one does their sound and the other sells their merch.

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  83. I saw Test Department, SPK and Cabaret Voltaire during the early eighties, along with many lesser known electronic/industrial acts, and I can vouch for the fact that the 'alternative' club audience of that era was very diverse indeed, and may well have extended to bodybuilders and models on any given night. One thing I NEVER saw was the whole Nazi uniform fetish thing - we have DiJ to 'thank' for that. Back then, Nazi memorabilia was strictly for the bonehead end of the skinhead scene.

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  84. Anonymous said...

    "Actually, if you cast your mind back Nigel, I rather think you would."
    .... The Final Academy at the ICA, vaious On-U nights at the Astoria and even Whitehouse at The Venue in Lewisham... just five events from the 80s which drew capacity audiences."

    I don't really get the drift of this post, but casting my mind back to the Final Academy, I found it in the Ritzy in Brixton.
    And Adrian Sherwood would have been doing On-U events, which tended to attract a diverse section of the public, (ie including what I'll daringly call normal people) not just pale people following an "alternative" and "goth" dress code.

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  85. & would that other "capacity audience" be at Whitehouse Dry Cleaners
    166 Hither Green Lane
    Lewisham
    London
    SE13 6QA?

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  86. The last telephone box G.O. played in housed well over 300 people. Quite the Tardis really. I hope they go for a real venue next time because at times it was difficult to move in there.

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  87. Just Another Comment24 Jun 2011 21:37:00

    Am I delusional, or did someone in this thread imply that Genocide Organ does NOT suck to high heaven? Seriously?

    At least Doug Pearce has a fairly nice voice and the music is overall sort of pleasant. But Genocide Organ? Come on people...

    They've kept their fans by not trying to go pop but also by not sucking shit.

    So, basically, you say they are incapable of any real musical or stylistic evolution whatsoever and stuck doing awful power electronics because that is all they are capable of doing.

    I prefer an artist who does not stick to the same sound for years and years on end to please one small clique of hardcore fanboys who can't deal with change. The sentiment that says groups like G.O. should keep doing what they are doing is about as sensible as the attitude in black metal circles, in which a band has to remain primitive, tinny, badly produced, and lo-fi or else they are not 'trve' or 'kvlt'.

    I prefer something a little more stimulating and varied than such juvenile silliness.

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  88. Nobody really cares about a bunch of nazi fetish lovers listening to some 1980's electro-music. Just the same as nobody cares about a bunch of Guardian readers in some kind of moral panic and protesting outside against it.
    People are far more concerned at what kind of pizza they'll be eating tonight whilst watching the latest events about the Masood family in Eastenders.

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  89. "Nobody really cares about a bunch of nazi fetish lovers listening to some 1980's electro-music. Just the same as nobody cares about a bunch of Guardian readers in some kind of moral panic and protesting outside against it."

    This is comment number 88 on this thread alone, which suggests that a lot of people do care a lot, one way or the other. I think this site is performing a really valuable service in shedding new light into murky areas of the underground music subculture, and I've learned a hell of a lot from it. If you're bored with the discussion, find another one - you have the whole internet to play with.

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  90. Sorry sucked Werther25 Jun 2011 21:58:00

    "Lets form a really naughty band!
    lets not name it in our native german but lets use
    english - even though other silly english boys who make harsh unrelenting noise like us use choose german!- umlauts or not! Although we're 'lauts' hoho - oh, look; heres a book of words a thes...thes...a book, anyway - lets look up really naughty words - I know - killing people - lots of them - Genocide! and lets look at a word for something sexy - penis - no - thats been had - organ! yes! thats really rude! Organ Genocide!"

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  91. So while G.O. in their 26th year of existence keep selling out venues in Germany it seems 6Comm and Sol Invictus near enough achieved the same trimuph in London tonight. Thanks for the free advertising WMTN!

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  92. Anonymous said...
    "So while G.O. in their 26th year of existence keep selling out venues in Germany it seems 6Comm and Sol Invictus near enough achieved the same trimuph in London tonight. Thanks for the free advertising WMTN!"

    Aside from the 150+ tasteless and tone-deaf twats who squandered good money to attend (and no doubt picked up a cynical, profiteering and hurriedly-printed 'Hate racism' T-shirt from the shameless management), this site will have educated many, many more on the dangers of fascist entryism and the weasel words which are used to defend it.

    So yes, thank you WMTN.

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  93. The problem is that not many of the "educated" bothered to turn up yesterday. Maybe this site could focus on teaching them about commitment as well.

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  94. The fact these bands' supporters have been squirming so much on WMTN comments is proof the info posted here is gold-dust - an education and a valuable long-term resource. Well done.

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  95. Раймонд Крумгольд27 Jun 2011 19:10:00

    About angry mob at Slimelight ...This wonderful ladies and gentlemen from Love Marmite Hate Rationality had pointed fingers to my wife's face and had shouted that she is nazi and she's company is a bunch of nazi scum. My wife is a liberal Quaker.
    I know one very good guy, who was on gig. When he had lived in Moscow he used to be antifa activist, street fighter. He fought bonhead on the street, he have death friends, who where killed by real nazi. And now he is "nazi scum" because he like neofolk.

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  96. What happened to the Andrew King post and all the comments?

    Lane.

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  97. So it's totally devolved from OMG NAZI BANDS!!! to really petty childish personal insults because that's all that's left now you guys have been proved FACTUALLY INCORRECT at every level and the protest was pretty much a total failure. Talk about undermining what very very little credibility you had left.

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  98. I only counted 20 UAF/LMHR protesting outside the gig. My friends and I were called 'Hitler' as we walked into the Slimelight, yet the Fuhrer didn't wear Goth clothing and DM boots, as far as I am aware.

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  99. Just an aside....Sol Invictus posted on Facebook page 27/06/2011 "Tony Wakeford would like it be known that any connection to Cold Spring Records is now at an end." The reason? "I listened to a Herr record", and "Cold Spring have many good points but we no longer wish to have any connection with a certain individual, however tenuous it is." Mmmmm....

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  100. @ anonymous — "Aside from the 150+ tasteless and tone-deaf twats . . ."
    I won't argue about taste, but there were at least 300 people at the gig, and very few protestors.

    "This site will have educated many, many more on the dangers of fascist entryism . . ."
    The point of most of the comments critical of WMTN and its spinoff into LMHR, is that notions of "fascist entryism" are misplaced, and the gig proved that. 6Comm and Sol Invictus may not be your cup of tea, but they are not your Zyklon B either.

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  101. The aim of all these efforts, according to the leaflet at least, was to "cancel the event". This was a failure. The back-up plan, it seemed, was to picket the gig, presumably to show displeasure. Apart from making punters having to run a gauntlet of personal insults, it doesn't seem like that was much of a success either as clearly the gig attracted a crowd.

    The premise of shutting down/picketing the gig was that the event "puts a diverse and vibrant community we all love at risk". Since the gig went ahead, the question now is, has that happened? What is the risk? How has it manifested? Considering that, in their own words, the protesters acknowledge "the majority attending the gig will not be racists or fascists" how do they justify their community being threatened in some way by this concert? And more to the point, where is their proof that it has?

    Either this gig has contributed to racists incidents, crimes, insults etc. in the area, or it hasn't. If it hasn't, you protesters and supporters of the protest have to concede you've been wasting your time, energy and efforts, because it's the real effects of racism that count. If it has, you'll need to supply evidence that it has, but also need to concede that you failed in stopping it.

    Either way, it's obvious you've lost. And I don't think you people realise just what fools you've made of yourselves, not only in your area but in other parts of the world. This whole thing has been a massive own-goal for your politics and the annoying thing is that racism needs to be seriously countered and dealt with, not played with like it's a simple game of music scene aesthetics. You've set yourselves up to fail with all this.

    Considering the serious shit that's happening both in your country and all over the world, with a rising refugee rate and a largely manipulated (from both sides) "clash of cultures" between the west and Islam, it's ridiculous that people claiming to be "anti-fascists" and opposed to racism would turn their backs on all of that and concentrate on a simple and largely underground music scene, inflating it's influence beyond its boundaries to justify your own obsessions with it. Whether you're involved in more serious actions against more serious enemies or not, in this instance you have truly made fools of yourselves and brought your politics into even more disrepute.

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  102. Just Another Comment29 Jun 2011 02:47:00

    you guys have been proved FACTUALLY INCORRECT at every level

    So am I factually incorrect when I saw that Moynihan associated with a genuine neo nazi racist in the form of James Mason?

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  103. Here is what a real nazi says - Northern Dawn -
    "I was a big fan of Neo Folk and Martial Industrial some years back, and still listen to some of it here and there.... but I have to agree with some posts that call to task the dedication and honesty of certain Neo Folk acts to what they are professing.....the majority of the bands / acts involved in this scene were singing of a sort of naive and romantic European redemption and using Third Reich imagery mearly for "shock value" and as a fashion statement! Certainly there are true denizens of this scene....playing the music because it speaks to them and to their European sensibilities......but the sheer number of acts that abandoned, and maligned the original "ethos" due to pressure put on them for their content and imagery shows a definitive lack of "backbone" when supporting your craft! Case in point.......Der Blutharsch used to revel in Third Reich / Fascist imagery and soundscapes, but when the heat got a bit TOO hot towards them...Albin Julius turned to a sort of Boyd Rice rehash of biker imagery, 60's psychedelia, and Elvis fetishism.......people stopped caring about Der Blutharsch at that point and they became marginalized. Now.....isn't interesting that Der Blutharsch has once again reverted back to using their "Iron Cross surrounded by Oak Leaves" logo? This is why Neo Folk is hardly relevant these days.....it's built on kitsch and imagery only.
    __________________
    Bah! Enough of the squalor of democratic humanity. It is time to begin to recognise the aristocracy of the sun. The children of the sun shall be lords on the earth.
    -D.H. Lawrence "

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Please at least use a pseudonym so it's possible to follow your argument if you make multiple posts